tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post9158167346764489045..comments2023-10-08T20:53:14.164+11:00Comments on Deep Dish Dreams: Sip-sup n Scribble. On reviewing food.stickyfingershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-89509728202307547182007-12-10T12:58:00.000+11:002007-12-10T12:58:00.000+11:00Great article Sticky. This is somthing, which has ...Great article Sticky. This is somthing, which has been brought up a bit lately and I think the pros and bloggers are both very valid sources. Both get it right and wrong sometimes. I fully appreciate the efforts of the pros who investigate all the details and provide a well-researched review, and those of the average diner, like myself, some of whom have a great deal of food knowledge who can share their own experiences and continually learn. I value the feedback from others and feel I am already improving in the way I look at culinary things. This is largely as a result of blogs.<BR/><BR/>I remember reading a forum piece by John Lethlean, just after AGFG completions a couple of years back talking about many of the pressures of the job and how there was nothing he wanted more than a night at home to relax with family and a home-cooked meal. Sometimes this is what we need. To me fine dining can be a magical experience, and one which I now choose to share. If only everyone could appreciate this and realise that restaurant reviewing (both professional and amateur blogging) is not about the money, but often about passion and sharing one’s journey with others.<BR/> <BR/>Happy eating,<BR/>Jon!Jon!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06843864454762808594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-34311289685030589332007-12-10T12:35:00.000+11:002007-12-10T12:35:00.000+11:00This is a GREAT writeup! I ate this up.This is a GREAT writeup! I ate this up.Cakespyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11540351035366591645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-23162317184700211012007-12-09T21:27:00.000+11:002007-12-09T21:27:00.000+11:00Great post, and love the possible sighting of Ruth...Great post, and love the possible sighting of Ruth Reichl! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-67291647523240478342007-12-08T00:39:00.000+11:002007-12-08T00:39:00.000+11:00Hey Jane - hope you're feeling a bit better. I rea...Hey Jane - hope you're feeling a bit better. I really think your post gives clarity to a pile of issues which are recycled in the blogosphere. There are clearly a range of goals amongst bloggers and the atomised or self-selecting nature of the online world can obscure the realities of media, whether mainstream or social. Good to see your knowledge out there for others to consider and discuss:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-8733556071521631362007-12-07T16:43:00.000+11:002007-12-07T16:43:00.000+11:00I think it really depends on why people have chose...I think it really depends on why people have chosen to have a food blog. i dont really see a competition between print and internet food writers as I think they have different audiences or else people like me who read both. i blog for myself, as a kind of diary of what i have cooked, or eaten at a restaraunt. I dont take photos in restaraunts but I do of my own food and I usually quite enjoy photos of prepared food as it helps in recipes etc. And I really like photos in blogs, there are some really amazing food photographers out there. Anyway those are the thoughts that popped into my head reading all your comments!Ranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06568352148465203176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-8501228728224720992007-12-07T15:03:00.000+11:002007-12-07T15:03:00.000+11:00sticky, the photo comment wasn't specifically dire...sticky, the photo comment wasn't specifically directed at anyone, and I don't think you are an offender.<BR/><BR/>gobbler, i would be curious to know if the three computers you tried it on all used the same browser application and version...grocerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13860154539429230909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-2179272812400466412007-12-07T12:33:00.000+11:002007-12-07T12:33:00.000+11:00Thanks guys, helpful - will investigate. Sad, that...Thanks guys, helpful - will investigate. Sad, that our bandwidth is so crap here. <BR/><BR/>I'm presuming it's not the animation as the Grocer herself has same. I usually download my pics at small (240x180) or sometimes medium sized for a hero image. So I really can't go any smaller than small.<BR/><BR/>I think the use of multiple images on many blogs happens because the lowest common denominator needs images as enticement to read. In other instances, the blog post revolves around the visual imagery.<BR/><BR/>Increasingly I am finding that a portion of my traffic is coming from Google image search, food porn and taste spotting images.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for keeping me in the loop.stickyfingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-79761677452711537872007-12-07T12:22:00.000+11:002007-12-07T12:22:00.000+11:00Hey Sticky, I have to agree with the Grocers last ...Hey Sticky, I have to agree with the Grocers last comments about scrolling down.<BR/>Of late, maybe since you put that little cartoon character on, it takes a lot longer to download your site. If I go to scroll down, it blanks out then re-downloads but it scrolls down excruciatingly slow.<BR/>I've tried this on there different computers cause I thought it was mine but the same thing happens on all. What do you think it is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-37143911258639847812007-12-07T05:40:00.000+11:002007-12-07T05:40:00.000+11:00I have one more small gripe on this issue, and tha...I have one more small gripe on this issue, and that is the necessity of bloggers to rely on photographs to convey their message.<BR/><BR/>I find it really off-putting to have to scroll down 10 photos to get to the next paragraph.<BR/><BR/>Finally, if you're going to post several or many photos on the blog, reduce the file size as most home readers are on a plan that has some kind of download cap; not only that but it slows down the time it takes to load the page...grocerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13860154539429230909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-90922084248473499392007-12-06T16:26:00.000+11:002007-12-06T16:26:00.000+11:00Hope you like the slice, their weekend trade is on...Hope you like the slice, their weekend trade is only Saturday, 8.30am - 1.00pm.neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247582833451153687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-20267228243018363112007-12-06T13:27:00.000+11:002007-12-06T13:27:00.000+11:00Sticky, firstly a really well written post. I have...Sticky, firstly a really well written post. I have much to learn about putting a point across and using language to its fullest if I am to entertain my unrealistic hopes of becoming a food writer.<BR/><BR/>Now to the actual post, here are some of my opinions.<BR/><BR/>I always thought the power of a food review was really high. I know that I turn to reviews all the time to decide where to eat. But I can see what you are saying when I really think about it, not many friends say "I read this review so decided to go here". So possibly their power isn't as great as I thought.<BR/><BR/>I totally agree that a food blogger is less knowledgeable technically than a professional writer. If someone becomes one's employment, you would go to much greater lengths to get accuracy and facts correct. This point is not being argued at all by me or anyone I think. <BR/><BR/>But I do disagree that food bloggers have to go to the extremes of talking to the chef and asking about management etc. Isn't that what the professionals are there to do. I know that my intended audience is not someone who is so skilled that they can correct all my mistakes. The audience I think most blogs are catering to are just people who are thinking of going out for a dinner and just want to see more or less what a restaurant offers in terms of food, ambience and service. We don't/can't/won't have all the details of every detail regarding the restaurant, but do people need to know all of that. When they go there and eat the food, they will decide whether they like it or not. <BR/><BR/>The grocer's comments sum up the situation the best "at the end of the day we read who we agree with or whose opinion we respect and filter out the things that waste our time." There are people, myself included sometimes, who want to read "This is what I ate last night" posts. That's good enough for me sometimes. Other times, usually when more costs are involved, I want to know particulars about a dish and how the flavours blend etc.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure the reality of food reviewing is not all glorious, but with so few people doing it, it's hard to know as you don't get a chance to speak to them personally. So thanks for writing about your own experiences.<BR/><BR/>You put it very nicely that the review needs to "entertain and hold the reader spellbound, so they feel that they can taste, chew and smell the dish through your words". This is where I think the key is. You don't need to be a wonderful technician to describe things in a very captivating way. Reviews written by bloggers usually aren't as good as a professional writer, but the informal nature of a blog allows people to weave much more personal stories into a review, which for me keeps me captivated. Reading about someone's birthday dinner and how they got a free dessert from the waiter keeps me entertained.<BR/><BR/>To finish off, I don't really know what my own point was in the article. I was just really happy when I read Adam's post about meeting Frank and how ordinary he was. That he wasn't some pretentious snob who thought he knew better than everyone about food. Because to me, food is so subjective that no one can ever have the definitive answer. Hence, one person's opinion is as valid as another. Having some knowledge of food does help you to give a more well rounded opinion, but it can never be the only opinion.<BR/><BR/>P.S I hope you get better from your cold. I love to read more posts from you, always makes me think.thanh7580https://www.blogger.com/profile/12101572834580539226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-64750048462898770282007-12-06T12:21:00.000+11:002007-12-06T12:21:00.000+11:00Thanks also to Grocer and to The Gobbler whose Pun...Thanks also to Grocer and to The Gobbler whose Punk analogies I very much identify with.<BR/><BR/>An after thought for Ed - perhaps what you humbly take in your stride as part of your profession and your natural gift for investigation and literacy, may actually be quite hifalutin' to the amateur?stickyfingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-83353738895542132492007-12-06T12:09:00.000+11:002007-12-06T12:09:00.000+11:00We went to Esposito at Toofeys for Mr Sticky's bir...We went to Esposito at Toofeys for Mr Sticky's birthday on Saturday. He enjoyed it, but merited flaws which I expect will be ironed out. It was definitely not a disaster.<BR/><BR/><BR/>MY notes:<BR/><BR/>Orders weren't written down so the wrong food came to the table initially. Two dishes out of four looked stunning in presentation but were completely bland, lacking texture and fragrance. Although the concept was good, they seriously needed work in the execution.<BR/><BR/>One dish had undercooked pasta which I expect was deliberate because a hot stock was to be poured over it - but the soup presented was luke warm. Great beans with almonds. Dessert was satisfactory but not mind blowing.<BR/><BR/>We didn't get to order wine until entree arrived, and then had to pour it ourselves. They checked the bottle to see if it was empty but never poured - odd. Didn't ask about coffee until we asked for the bill...we were over it by then.<BR/><BR/>The quality of ingredients were high, but I think we had technically better executed seafood ten days before at Seagrass, where The River used to be at Southgate.<BR/><BR/>My suggestion is to order the stuff that Esposito has been known for in previous venues.<BR/><BR/>We're going to Fenix for my birthday on the 17th, hopefully I will enjoy that more.<BR/><BR/>BTW thanks Neil, I'm on the mend, got my voice partly back today at least & thanks for the Vanilla Slice tip off we'll be sampling it this weekend.stickyfingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-26445035509118341222007-12-06T11:39:00.000+11:002007-12-06T11:39:00.000+11:00you should tell us that toofeys isn't that great s...you should tell us that toofeys isn't that great so i don't waste time and money there for Jak's birthday.Ed Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579789564673979283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-46632924783693207172007-12-06T07:57:00.000+11:002007-12-06T07:57:00.000+11:00I guess the thing with an orchestrated tasting is ...I guess the thing with an orchestrated tasting is that it must be made clear somewhere in the review that it is an event of this nature. As to remaining objective, I do think it is possible; I tend to write what I think with very little filtering, at Pizza e Birra most of the dishes were great, but there was one that I thought didn't quite work and said so. You need to understand the pressure to write a pleasing review at these events is entirely in your own head and deal with it.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for your cold, sounds exactly like the one I had last week, if you need the name of a very reliable cough medicine, drop me a line.neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247582833451153687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-56892351580986019502007-12-05T19:19:00.000+11:002007-12-05T19:19:00.000+11:00Sticky, that was a wonderfully observed & thoughtf...Sticky, that was a wonderfully observed & thoughtful post & was pleasure to read!<BR/>I totally agree that to 'do review' one must have at least a fundamnetal understanding of not only how to cook, but the latest techniques, the old techniques, the history, the culture, the provenance of foodstuffs, the fashions, the foibles prehaps even the future.<BR/>I might occaisonally whinge at the edges of a particular establishment review but I am glad that it usually comes from someone who is at least a bit learned. I too am SO bored by bloggers who do the 'Wot I ate Last nite' thingy.<BR/>I do however see a future where traditional media reviwers & some bloggers will be given equal respect.<BR/>Again though, the challenge will be that those who are not recognised will see it as some sort of 'muzzling' or oversight that their voice dos'nt count as much as someone who is connected or part of what they might see as a clique<BR/>To me ther are obvious parallels with Punk.<BR/>Just because some of us can actually PLAY our instruments doesn't compromise the purity of our message.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-10431258445629769662007-12-05T18:25:00.000+11:002007-12-05T18:25:00.000+11:00excellent writing sticky! Wow!I haven't got a grea...excellent writing sticky! Wow!<BR/><BR/>I haven't got a great deal to say, my blog isn't about reviewing restaurants, I just thought it was a well crafted piece.<BR/><BR/>at the end of the day we read who we agree with or whose opinion we respect and filter out the things that waste our time.<BR/><BR/>re ed's point: i think that food media and reviewers should be able to attend opening nights so long as the "freebies" aren't what the review is about; so that the reviews reflect what the reader will ultimately receive.grocerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13860154539429230909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-66029184586400856512007-12-05T17:47:00.000+11:002007-12-05T17:47:00.000+11:00Ed - my head is in a fug thanks to a virus so I am...Ed - my head is in a fug thanks to a virus so I am banging on rather more wordily than usual, but my point is that some Bloggers seem to lose sight of the fact that Stephen & John et al are required to form an educated opinion. Pedantry is not necessary but sound knowledge is invaluable for accurate assessment.<BR/><BR/>For me reviewing is more than an 'I like/disliked' this or that...yawn. I want to know about the dishes in detail, the concepts and the thought process as well as how it feels to eat it. Even on TV, watching 'Mr Bizarre Food blogger' saying "Oh that's fabulous" 20 times bores me to tears. Tell me what it's like, for God's sake!<BR/><BR/>I'm with you on exempting oneself from orchestrated events if reviewing. Or of making it clear that the review was not based on the PR field trip but on other experiences.<BR/><BR/>I think Bloggers are invaluable for 'Beta testing' but urge them to raise the bar in their analysis of a meal. I think there is room for a column in Epicure that does brief stories on new venues, with a view to the fully fleshed account when the venue hits its stride.<BR/><BR/>In this vein it was interesting that John chose to profile Maurice Esposito instead of reviewing the new incarnation of Toofeys. We were there recently and I was honestly underwhelmed. I put it down to teething problems and have not written about it.<BR/><BR/>At the core of all of this, I feel annoyed with the whole 'people in glass houses' thing when disparaging remarks are thrown between digital and traditional media protagonists. And I am especially tired of reading 'what I ate last night' stories which get their facts wrong in either media.<BR/><BR/>Now I have to go and bury my head in steam to empty the fug.stickyfingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-9890848536775655212007-12-05T17:19:00.000+11:002007-12-05T17:19:00.000+11:00You can't be objective in an orchestrated event. B...You can't be objective in an orchestrated event. But we found our own different way to tell the story of the night (Nobody has mentioned the other blogger there that night. Is he the real Mr Big?)What I wonder is what is the position of the reviewer who goes to these press events - Dunkeld, Birra, Bottega this week and next - and then reviews it. I'm guessing they should exempt themselves from the events as Stephen Downes does. Sticky I do think you make it out to be all very hifalutin'. Should we go in for full on reviews in a restaurant's early days or wait until it's left what we could call beta testing? I think we should all remember it is impossible for a single person to know everything about food. A good journalist simply knows to observe, ask the right questions and then report on the experience for the average punter. He's not there to show off his pedantic knowledge to F--dies.Ed Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579789564673979283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-20837863959670835232007-12-05T16:51:00.000+11:002007-12-05T16:51:00.000+11:00Thanks Neil, I enjoyed your post on Pizza e Birra ...Thanks Neil, I enjoyed your post on Pizza e Birra and loved the snap of Ed. You captured him in his element I suspect.<BR/><BR/>I find the notion of invited reviews equally fascinating. It is becoming increasingly popular in the US for PR companies to invite digital and print reviewers to an orchestrated tasting. But how can you be objective under the circumstances when they are pulling all the stops out to woo you?stickyfingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861830835308131738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7700505313257578551.post-21498138179860377892007-12-05T16:41:00.000+11:002007-12-05T16:41:00.000+11:00The Jay Rayner thing happened here last month, wit...The Jay Rayner thing happened here last month, with both traditional media and food bloggers being invited to the press launch of Pizza e Birra and I was fortunate enough to score an invite in the inbox. I understand what you mean about a certain food blogger style and that we need to strive to make our reviews interesting and informed, good point.neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247582833451153687noreply@blogger.com